The Getting Lit Podcast
Casual yet stimulating talks about books and media.
The Getting Lit Podcast
How To Read
Reading isn't dead - our attention spans have just been hijacked by phones and social media. Inspired by an essay Fresta wrote on how to read last year, we discuss practical strategies to reclaim your reading habit and rediscover the joy of getting lost in a good book.
Check out Fresta's essay on Rare Candy's substack with more detailed reading tips and strategies: https://rarecandy.substack.com/p/how-to-read-books
You know, he's really, he's shameless. An intellectual argument, he's absolutely without character, a moral foundation or even intellectual substance Thank you, welcome back to getting lit podcast. Last episode we talked about uh jdo's book god's fair, no better. And this episode we're not really talking about a book, but we're getting meta and we're talking about how to read. Uh and I, I wanted to do this because fresta has written a wonderful piece about this on, uh, rare candies sub stack.
Speaker 2:It was a couple of years ago now, or last year, yeah, yeah, yeah, um, and I guess he were you asked to do that or did you just submit it to them, or yeah, no, I just was like thinking about it one day and like this is how I always write, it's like an idea I'll just get in my head and then I'm like I'll quickly just jot it down on my phone and then I like wrote it, and then I was like message glenn.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh hey, I just wrote this thing, would you run it? And he's like, yeah, I'll take a look, wrote it. And then I was like message Glenn. I was like, oh hey, I just wrote this thing, would you run it? And he's like, yeah, I'll take a look at it. And then I just like didn't hear anything from him for a while. So I was like, ah, I guess he didn't like it. And then he's like all right, I'm putting it up tomorrow I was like oh, really You're running it?
Speaker 1:I, yeah. So I just wanted to talk about this because I've actually had a few people reach out to me because they know I host a books podcast. I might have mentioned this on a previous episode, but I've been asking like, oh, where do I get started? And I've been getting lots of questions about like I used to read a lot and I just can't get my attention back. Like it's really hard to like focus and read books now and blah, blah, blah blah and like usually asking me for tips and things like this um and I've mostly been pointing them to your article it's like just go read this um, but if you can't even like sit down, it's still long enough to read this, which is like what? A thousand words maybe, maybe not even that I'm not good at the word count thing.
Speaker 2:I always hear authors talking about like in terms of word counts and I just have like no concept for what. So I was gonna say a hundred words a hundred words. It's like a paragraph yeah, so maybe it's a thousand, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, five hundred to a thousand so, yeah, um, I do point people towards this um, and I think there's a lot of wisdom in it, but also I think there's a lot of uh. One of the things that you kind of get at in this uh little essay that you've done, which I think is very true, is this idea that, um, you have to start with like a high modernist or like really, really difficult classics or things like that. And I don't think you do. I think, like, if you want to get back into reading, I would go with like the trashiest thing you're interested in, like if you're, if you're a, if you're a guy into like airport novels or whatever, just get on that. Get on that Crichton tip Um, lots of resources on rare candy for that, um, but or, you know what's that other guy's name, james Patterson.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a guy, yeah, stephen King, anything like that Blocky stuff that you kind of know you'll be interested in, um and so kind of know you'll be interested in, and so, like we read obviously we read heaps of books for the podcast, so we've got experience with this. But I will admit even myself that, like it, the phone is the problem, right, so that sometimes you get distracted, you get a notification or you get like that I hate this like coiling need you have within you to check your phone sometimes, even if you don't have a notification, and that can creep up on you when you're reading sometimes and that just disturbs the flow of things. And so I think that we're doing this episode as a sort of like public service to get people to think about how to, if they have trouble sticking to like reading and books and things like that. We're going to kind of go through some of our hints and tips for doing this. This sounds very remedial for like people who are, you know, listening to a book's podcast.
Speaker 1:But I'm saying to you that, like, even I have this I'm guessing you have this as well that, like, sometimes you can be just distracted by phones, life, you know, all this other stuff, and it's not necessarily about ignoring all of that because you know you don't want to get so engrossed in a book that you're going to abandon your partner who's just fallen off the balcony or something. But, like you, you need to um, you need to lock in, basically, and yeah, there's various strategies that we've got, um, but yeah, why, why did you, uh, write this? It just came to you. Or like, did you have a similar thing with people asking you like, how do you read so much?
Speaker 2:or whatever, like, what's the no, it was more just like for myself, like, um, noticing yeah, like these things that were like slowing me down or things, and I sort of had just I guess I just started like compiling a mental list of like tips that I was helping, and so I'd have to, like, you know, like if I was finding myself like grabbing at my phone or just like reading the same paragraph over a million times, I would sometimes have to like go back to my own checklist and think like what have I done in the past to like get past this? And so I think I was just sitting in the bath like trying to read something and I kept like zoning out, and then I like that's right. Like you know, sometimes I do, um, yeah, like well, to back it up a little bit, I'd say like the best, the ultimate advice is given by jack mason, which is just just scan your eyes across the page exactly and read the story.
Speaker 1:That's literally it but yeah and he says as well that I agree with, even if you miss things, like don't worry, just keep going, like yeah, because you can always, like you know, go back if you want, really want to know this detail that's not filled in later on, or whatever, like so I don't, I don't think missing things is necessarily, um, a bad thing, because a lot stuff, a lot of texture and things that fill in the world or the characters or whatever, often isn't like crucial for you understanding what's going on later in the book. And if it is just flip back, you know and yeah, like you really do, sometimes I read something and like my eyes will glaze over and I'm kind of not really reading it, but I am. Have you ever had that experience where you, like you're sort of like going through the sentences and you are reading it, but you're not like taking it in? Like sometimes that happens too, which?
Speaker 1:is very weird, weird feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you'll reread it. And then once you've like yeah, then you'll reread it. And then once you've like, yeah, like you're, like you're saying you don't have to go back, like I just started, like the gene wolf um, the first book of the book of the long sun, it's called nightside the long sun. I was calling it nightside of the long sun and then I showed a cover to joseph. She goes nightside the long sun. I go it's not of the long sun, you idiot. And then she's like I look at it and I'm like, oh, she's actually correct.
Speaker 2:I just put the of in there because that's and I don't know if that's why he did that to fuck with the reader or whatever, probably. But anyway, like the first few pages, I've like no context for what's going on and it's sort of meant to be. And they introduce a bunch of like character names and stuff and I just did exactly that. I'm like whatever, I'm just gonna keep reading through. And then a few pages later, all that shit started making sense.
Speaker 2:Like your mind, it is in your mind somewhere. If you read it, like, even if you didn't consciously read it, you still did absorb it in some degree. So if you just keep reading a few pages, few through, you'll eventually get enough context that you're like, oh, I can actually see the story in my head now, and then you can like either go back or just remember those earlier passages. So yeah, because I do that all the time, like I'll just read the same. There's just certain types of paragraphs where, like, no matter how many times I read it, my brain will just not latch onto it. And same with the audio books or whatever so, and like I used to always just keep reading it, reading it, and then you're like putting yourself to sleep because you're so bored and like not interested, you just yeah, it's just much better to move on, push through, yeah.
Speaker 2:And if you just keep doing that, if you're doing that for like 25 pages and you're just just literally abandon the book, like you can come back to it later. Just that's the other thing people always do is they they start a book and they're like, well, I heard about this other book I to read, but I'm still like only 25 pages into fucking like whatever. And it's usually some like thick, like nonfiction thing or something. They're like oh, I have to read this whole Deleuze book or something before I can start. It's like no, you actually don't need to finish that, just start the book you want to read. Like you've got to ride your enthusiasm a bit.
Speaker 2:So if you're keen for something like you've heard about a book and it sounds awesome, but you're already in the middle of another book but you're not enjoying that other book or you're having trouble getting through it, just start a new book and see how you go. Maybe you won't like it as much as you thought, but if you get into it and because it's all about just getting in the zone, because I think that's what people want when they say they want to read, it's not just they don't know how to read. They want to become immersed in a book where it's not effort it's not a lot of effort for them to read it. They want to just actually sit down and have a good time reading, and that's what I think. What they're asking for is how do you do that?
Speaker 1:yeah, and I think that's, um, you know, just relating it tangentially to other media as well. I think one of the reasons why people are very dissatisfied with like movies and TV now is that even those which are a bit easier, those forms are a bit easier to get into Cause, like it's a little bit more I don't want to say passive, but it's a little bit more like you're not when you're reading something, you're co-creating it in a way. Right, like when you read it, but like when you're watching something you it's all given to you. But I think a lot of the complaints about, you know, the Netflix-ization of like media and stuff like that comes from, um, you know, films and TV that are made not for you to lock in, that are made not not necessarily to immerse you, because but they're made basically for people who are on their phones and like, yeah, you know, random loud stuff will happen, grab people's attention, they'll work out what's happening and then kind of go back to their phone, sort of thing. Like you can really see this in most tv shows on streaming and stuff like that, and movies too, that they're really designed this way.
Speaker 1:So like this, this concept of immersion only really, um, only, I think it only really exists, uh, in terms of media forms, in books and, to a kind of different extent, um, video games, like that's the whole point of both of those forms, whereas the other ones have sort of. I mean, there are films that will immerse you, but they are very slow and kind of, they're like the tarkovsky thing, like we talked about a few episodes ago. You know, um, but even that you have to get into that state where you are receptive to immersion, you know. So yeah, like that's an interesting kind of point that I thought was worth remarking on, that like you do need to be in a state where you are ready for that kind of immersion, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, are ready for that kind of immersion, right, yeah, and like part of it too is like, if you're like, okay, I want to have seen this movie and it goes for two and a half hours, and then you're thinking about what you're going to do afterwards and you're just trying to get through it, you're constantly gonna be checking like how long to go, yeah, and that's all the kind of stuff. The same with a book, like with you know, another bit of advice I give is just get a kindle like um, everyone go, oh, but I like the feeling of a real book. It's like shut up, like just get the kindle. Like you can still read real books like. But the kindle is great because a you can like literally like tap on the corner and get rid of the page number and how long left, like you can check that from time to time, how long left in the chapter, but I think it's best to just turn that off so you can't see that at all.
Speaker 2:And then always you can just like make the font size huge so you get this feeling of like punching through pages like, so you can be like it's like, whatever they make it up, you know I make it usually pretty large font um, and so it's like you just like read 25 words next page you know, you get this flow on, whereas if you know, when you're like got a big tome of a book and it's like bible size font, and then you open like a two-page spread and you can see there's no chapter break for like 30 pages, that can like, unless the story's really like got you in, and in which case this advice is not necessarily relevant for you anyway.
Speaker 2:But, like you know, that makes you just like constantly, like, all right, like, and you're just thinking of the labor of getting to that, like the bottom of the next page, and then you flip it, like uh, and still no chapter break. You know, yeah, yeah. So also, yeah, pick books that not don't read gravity's rainbow if you have trouble, pick a book that, like every four pages there's a new chapter or something yeah, yeah, like a pulpy or like airport type kind of novel.
Speaker 1:If that's what you're into, like, yeah, you just really need to follow your kind of interest. And I also think that, from a like going back, like, you need to restructure your idea of like what reading a book is. Like you're, you're doing this for pleasure. You're not doing this for education, um, unless you are, in which case it's a different thing we're talking about like, um, if you're reading a textbook, fine, right, like um, you know, uh, but yeah, people have this idea that, um, reading is an educational practice because of the way that we are taught reading in school when they go into reading. Is that I need to get, like certain, I need to get points out of this or something, some kind of like measurable benefit in terms of like, did I learn something, or whatever. Like it's just like.
Speaker 1:I remember seeing like a tweet about this that I quote tweeted where I think it was some idiot like um right-wing influencer or whatever. Who was like was it? I think it was. It was like you know, um, uh, they were talking about fiction and they were saying, um, why read novels or fiction or whatever. Any of those ideas that you would learn from. You'll get a better version of that in like philosophy and theory and I'm like, oh my God.
Speaker 1:First of all, they use some term like informationally, dense or something like that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and so, um, the, the point being that, like, if that's the, if that's the reason you're reading, like just that's the wrong reason to read a novel, if that's why you're reading philosophy and theory, or whatever, fine, you can do that. Um, although there's an argument you could make that certain philosophy is a literary kind of like. Nietzsche is sort of a little bit more literary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and certain like fiction is philosophical, yeah, and like to that person's point, like, oh yeah, it's like you know less words to convey the same idea is like, yeah, but if those words are boring and it takes you like six months to get through a 300 page book, whereas you could just burn through like a thousand page book, like the fountainhead or something, it's gonna like you know, but you're gonna have a good time and you're gonna absorb those ideas. Like then like yeah, stupid anyway.
Speaker 1:Like the point. The point is, the point I'm making basically is the good time is the thing you know like, yeah, it's good, it's good to get you know these. You know it's good to get something like um, if you want edifying out of a book or whatever. Whatever it is um. But also I think it's it's the primary, the primary thing that you want out of a fiction novel. A fiction um book is, uh, that pleasure.
Speaker 1:You want to have a good time rather than I'm doing this to learn something and it's just like. Well, I think the learning something is is normally in fiction anyway, it's not the point. But it can be like a kind of um epiphenomenon or whatever. That I don't know if that's the right word, but you're like a kind of um epiphenomenon or whatever. That I don't know if that's the right word. But you're like a, like a kind of um byproduct of having a good time, um, while you're doing that um. But I don't think people should go into it like and this is a problem that even I think, like people who are paid to be literary critics and stuff like that, have where they look at it from this point of view of like, what am I getting out of it, like educationally, and I'm like what? Like you know, this taught me, this taught me, teaches us this, or whatever. Like it doesn't need to teach you anything. Like it's, it's not.
Speaker 2:It's a work of art, it's not a work of like, uh, agitprop or propaganda, although you know some of it is like, is like yeah, and that's a real problem, obviously with a lot of literature these days yeah, and it's like if you say you really insist that you have to read, like whatever, some french theory or something like that, like, and I've had, I've had good times reading philosophy, like, like, generally I find these books are like you probably could have summed that idea up in one chapter but you had to stretch it out to a 300-page book so it was worth buying. But like, say you really just like, for whatever reason, want to be someone who's read Nietzsche or something like that, just get two books, get the whatever the boring book and get, get like something fun the island of dr moreau or something and just be like 10 pages, just go 10 for 10, be like. Or chapter for chapter, be like. All right, like, once I finish 10 pages of the boring book, then I can treat myself to 10 pages of the like fun book.
Speaker 2:You know, if you're the kind of person who can be disciplined that way, like the other, the only pitfall with that is, like, if you're like, just too chaotic to follow the rules or you just turn it into this, like you're getting away from reading again by getting all obsessed with the system of the rules, like, like, there's some advice.
Speaker 2:I guess that's what I was saying when I was like had more about that article. I want to say is it's like, don't get fixated on all the little things I've just tried to give hints to like things I do, but like you got to make your own system that works for you, like, if you like because I said, like you know, listen to certain, you can, if you you can like put music on, like to like block out the sounds of your like co-workers and stuff like that. But if you get too fixated on like picking the right music and stuff like that and like that can be a distraction too. So you sort of got to like see what works for you and just try to remain like actually reading.
Speaker 1:And if you're too spurgy about if you're going to do that, because sometimes I find it easy to like block out you know my partner clanging around the house or whatever while I'm reading but like if you can't, if you're, if that's a problem for you and and, like you said, put on music or something you can even get. Things like that are just sounds like ambient sounds Like there's like 10 hour videos on YouTube of like rain hitting a tin roof. You could do something like that, you know, just to block that out, like it's just a sort of like a white noise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't want it to be distracting, like if it's an artist you like too much, like, yeah, like, even if it's just instrumental music or something like you know but if you want to find that, yeah you're going to find that more interesting than the book like yeah, yeah, you don't want to listen to anything with vocals, or at least the vocals can't be in english or a language you can understand.
Speaker 2:You know, like I listen to the band dark throne, like black metal band, because it's all just like like I can't and it's just like textured guitars and stuff and like, or I'll put like sun ra on because it's jazz, but then something there's a lot of sun ra songs where there's like chanting in english and lyrics and stuff, and always have to like skip those songs because like my mind will just latch on to that. I am getting better at like tuning out, like some like was. I was listening to like kanye the other day and reading and I was just like actually able to like not pay too much attention to the lyrics or whatever. Um, but you know that's like that takes a while to develop that skill and if someone's got like the news on or something, I just can't like fucking detach oh, yeah, yeah, well, you go to a cafe and there's just like some fucking idiots set up at the table near you and they just start talking about the boring as shit.
Speaker 2:Or it might work. People just like will sit down and just start watching the news or something on their phone without headphones. Next you'll be reading and they'll just sit down next to you, start watching, or they'll just talk about work with everyone else. It's like we're at work. Why you want to fucking talk about work on your break? So that's when it's good to have just headphones in your bag or whatever to just put in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, put ambient sounds, binaural beats, just white noise, something like that. That's going to just like not be too distracting but like you can at least block out those noises and sometimes, if you get the soundtrack right, it can enhance the reading process. Just don't get too fixated on that. Don't be like is this the right soundtrack? Is this is? Is this like? That's just like a thing that'll just happen by chance once in a while and you just got to appreciate it when it does happen. But don't be like like I was trying to do that reading neuromancer. I was trying to find the right like cyberpunk kind of like soundtrack and I was like, yeah, even listening to the soundtrack from the video game and but I just was like not finding it to work exactly how I wanted to and at some point I was just like you know, I'm just gonna put sunra on. That works better, it's just sunra for everything.
Speaker 2:I read a lot to sunra yeah, it works for a lot, although some of this stuff is like irritating, so like like because he's just got so many albums and then I'll just like I forget what this one sounds like. It's like one of the really like experimentally weird ones and I was like I'll just go back to one of the classics, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So I should have asked you this up front though Like what's your kind of history with this? Like reading, like did you read a lot as a kid and then, kind of you know, drifted away from it and is the? You wrote this because you're kind of, you know, showing people how you got back into it, or like, what's the? What was the deal with with, with your own reading practice.
Speaker 2:so um, as a kid I got at certain age, like got into the goosebumps books. Oh yeah, like probably just about every kid in the 90s did, and that was mostly all I read, although there were some other things I remember reading. There was a sort of knockoff goosebumps branch. I cannot remember what it was called, but they like remember some story about giant ants. Um, like, I just remembered like you'd see them in like news agencies where they wouldn't sell goosebumps and if I didn't have a like a current goosebumps book or whatever. So I remember reading like every single of the like normal goosebumps.
Speaker 2:I hated the give yourself goosebumps ones. Like the choose your own adventure ones. I was like this sucks. Like now you're giving me like 13 stories that are like all mid. I want the author to just fascistically to decide what the best pathway through this story is. Um, I remember the first time I got a goose to give you self-goosebumps book I read like read it within like three sort of changes. I like the character just died or something and I was like well, I guess I finished the book. And then someone's like no, you go back and you choose the different options and I was like I don't like this. This sucks, but yeah, so I read all those. And then you some other books and shit. You remember those like scholastic magazines or whatever, like you'd order books through school. I remember whatever some things like that. I read a lot in primary school, then in high school pretty much read nothing except for Tony Hawk's autobiography like three times, and then in late high school.
Speaker 1:And then you got into weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and then like late high school, some stoner friends were like into the Belgaria, the David Eddings books, which I know you've read as well, and so they're like I remember getting really into those and then sort of reading Lord of the Rings and then being like, yeah, all right, I love fantasy, but then just like never found another fantasy series I really like got into and then I sort of stopped reading. You know, like late high school you're just partying and whatever, skateboarding a lot, so I wasn't really reading anything. Maybe a couple of things.
Speaker 2:Through my twenties I think I read Didi Ramon's autobiography, peter parrot biography and animal farm and started a bunch of books but never finished them started like an evil and war book. At some point I was like this sucks, um, and maybe it is good. I just at the time was like I don't understand what's even happening in this book, uh, and then you had basically read nothing through my 20s and then, about like the age 30 I think, listening to a lot of podcasts, I felt like that kind of ambient pressure to be like literary and like read and so I started reading, like you know, philosophy sort of stuff, and you know, maybe I listened to like the audio book of Crime and Punishment and slowly just started getting in. Oh yeah, that was probably like audible, like, definitely like, but like a lot of those sort of trashy like. I think it was like would be like christopher hitchens and richard dawkins books on, like audible, and then eventually like, yeah, sort of getting more literary, and then at some point started reading like libertarian books which are dreadfully boring. Um, I didn't mind.
Speaker 2:Hans herman hopper. His book democracy the god that failed, was pretty good, although it was probably boring in some ways too. Like it's 400, some pages and it's kind of like you get the point pretty quickly. And then, yeah, at some point I just realized like I'm just gonna start reading fiction and uh, and then, yeah, got a lot better from there once I started like just actually, yeah, because I had that thing.
Speaker 2:Like, oh, you know you, I should be reading these like philosophy books to become intelligent and understand like the world. And then you have this delusion that like, oh, if I read enough of it, I'll have all the problems of the world figured out. And then after a while you realize like oh, I just made it all way more complicated. Like now I realize like shit, like there's no solving any of this shit, like at least I'm not. So yeah, basically that, what about you? Have you just kind of always read since a kid? Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 1:and then obviously I did a um literature degree. Uh, well, I started doing an education degree because I was going to be a teacher, but then I got really annoyed with that because it was just so much bullshit like educational theory and I was like, eh, I'm just going to do literature. And so I just sort of did that. And that was when, doing a literature degree, you actually had to read a fuckload of books. Like you literally had to read like a uh, a Dickens book in a weekload of books. Like you literally had to read like a uh, a dickens book in a week, sort of thing. You know, like, so we, it usually wasn't a full 13 weeks of of a book each week, but usually it was like at least eight you would have to read over a semester. And big books too, like you have to go from like dickens to george elliott middle march. You'd have to to like really big kind of not modern books, um, until you get we did the um, the post-modern fiction kind of book, and but even then they were modern books but they're fucking huge, like you know. Like um, yeah, like you said, gravity's Rainbow I don't think we did Gravity's Rainbow actually, but that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I was always into reading when I was a kid and a teenager and at the same time that I was sort of reading all of these big 19th century books in college, I was reading, like, like, all the fun stuff as well, and that actually was, like you saying, I was kind of doing what you advise in a weird way, because I would be like I remembered that back at uni when I first started university. That was when, you know, I, you know I was a trailblazer, because that was when I was reading the Game of Thrones books, long before the TV adaptation, and I got really into those because those first, um, those first three books are like so good, they are just so gripping and like and you just want to keep going, um, very, very compelling and kind of addictive reading. And, yeah, weirdly, that helped read the more kind of, because it is pretty Martin's, pretty easy to read, but it helps with the more difficult stuff, the old-timey stuff, you know, yeah. So so, yeah, and obviously, but, like I said at the top, like you know, the advent of smartphones and things like that, it has taken a toll on my ability to read as well. So I have to.
Speaker 1:It's this weird thing where I didn't think about it before when I was a kid or like younger, but now I do have to be, just be a little bit more like mindful when, when I'm I'm sitting down to read sort of thing, like then that means phone away, um, you know, just sort of and it's not just the phone, it's like this um, you, you're, you've got to kind of make yourself an island. You know your bed is an island and you're not gonna go and do the dishes or do little chores unless you're like listening to a audio yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2:Then you need to do chores. I can't just sit there and do nothing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too and that is good. That's a good like productivity thing for me. Like, I will listen to a lot of audio books, mostly because of the podcast, because I have so many books to read and then I go on other podcasts and stuff like that, and so I'll usually have one book that I'm like reading on my kindle or a physical book, and then I'll be listening to a book as well for the show. But I don't know if I didn't have a books podcast that I know whether I would even be on audible. To be quite honest, because it is a different there's there's a slightly different vibe to audiobook versus reading it.
Speaker 2:Some books work better as audiobooks. I find trashy. Like fantasy stuff is great for like fiction and then sort of like zippy nonfiction stuff, like autobiographies or like a fucking Ann coulter book or something like works good as audiobook. But some things like if you try to listen to like I remember when I was getting really into like julius avola and I was like listening to his books on audiobook, they're not good on audiobook, I mean, like it's, you know this shit's hard to read as it is. But, um, yeah, I, I like if I probably wouldn't have audible if I didn't have a driving job, because like that is, I generally listen to audiobooks when I'm driving around and stuff like that at work. Like if I get sort of sick of podcasts sometimes or if I have to read a book, like you know, for the podcast or whatever. Like yeah, the audible is great for that, but if I didn't have that job I just probably would cancel my subscription, um for sure that's what I gotta get.
Speaker 2:I gotta get a driving job like yeah, it's so good, um, just that you don't have to think too much as well, exactly, yeah and because I'm always like I keep my kindle in my pocket, like the new kindle is like smaller, so it's even lighter and fits in my pocket really good. Um like, oh, you want to hear an example of what a fucking like lunatic I am. Sometimes like um, when I was like I'm gonna buy the new kindle, and then I went to like jb hi-fi and I was looking because it looks smaller and I was like wait, it's like smaller. Like it's like says it's a six inch screen, but and I'm like using my thumb to like measure the diagonal I'm like that's not six inches, so this is like some bullshit. And I'm like I don't want to get a smaller screen. Like that'll make even harder. You know you get a pdf and you try to read on. You can't resize the font then and I'm like talking to the guy. I'm like is this actually six inches? Is like says it's six inches? I'm like, no, that's not six inches, that that's not six inches.
Speaker 2:And then I was like standing there, like looking at it, and another guy comes up and I'm like this isn't six inches and Josie, my fiancee, is just like so embarrassed for the way I'm being. And then he's like, oh, I can go get the ruler and bring it out. And then he does I'm like, yeah, yeah, do it. And he actually brings the ruler out and he measures it and goes. Josie goes, yeah, it's six inches. And I was like, oh okay, I guess I stand corrected here. And then I go home and I get my old Kindle out and I measure it and I go, yeah, this is six inches too. I guess it's just the outer casing on the old one is bigger, so it looks smaller and so I just go to a different.
Speaker 1:JB Hi-Fi and buy it Because you couldn't turn up at the same time, yeah no.
Speaker 2:And Josie's like maybe I'm not sounding how much of a psychopath I was probably coming across, but Josie's, just like you are a fucking lunatic.
Speaker 2:I forget where I was going with this story, exactly how I got onto this no-transcript, so I'll just keep the Kindle in my pocket, yeah, and like because I'm always just have to wait for people that aren't ready, or like I've got to get in elevators or wait. You know it's always construction going on in the city in Brisbane so you're just like it's always tradies just clogging up the elevator for ages. So I'll just stand there and like I know some people like have jobs where they're constantly looking at a computer screen and they just say like they can't read too much because they just sort of it reminds them of work and they need to like just watch TV to turn their brain off.
Speaker 1:But like yeah, well, in that example, I think that probably physical books are probably better than a Kindle then, so they don't have to like a screen. You know, yeah, um, because it is a different. You know, they can get that tactile like element of it if they want. Um, yeah, one of the uh things I love that you put in this essay, um, it's right at the top actually, when you're saying and I say this to people all the time that when people complain that they can't read, I'm like you're scrolling on like social media, you and you're, you're, it's literally true that they've probably consumed about as many words as a book like within within the week.
Speaker 1:You know, and it's just like, well, yeah, why don't you take that? You know clearly you can do it. You know clearly by amount you can read that amount of words. So, like, just transfer that to a book and something that has your interest, because I don't think you can go cold turkey from scrolling the internet. Some people can, but they're spergs basically Scrolling the internet to Dostoyevsky or something like that. Like you said, go to something that you're interested in and enthusiastic about, but, yeah, that that. That is so true that, like, people consume so many words on social media, whether it's twitter, even instagram, which is a visual platform, people are reading the captions and like all of that, this sort of stuff. It all adds up.
Speaker 2:It's not like you can't pass your eyes over words and like comprehend what they're saying, so just do that on a page you know, yeah, or even just texting or group chats or whatever you know, when you like think, like I'll just scroll up to find that message and you're like that was ages ago.
Speaker 2:Like, just like only a couple of minutes, so it's like they can read that much. It's just when it's broken down into these little bite-sized bits like, you only have to consume like a little bit at a time. You know, like, but sometimes you just got trick your brain. That's why, like the kindle likes resizing the font to be bigger so you don't feel like you're getting through quite as much. Like and you'll get like you want to just get that flow on. And yeah, like I always sometimes, yeah, if you're looking at your phone, especially a lot, and then you're going to go to reading, you're going to be kind of in the phone zone in your brain a bit. You've got to kind of like do something to reset. You go like, let go of it. Like you, just like you know you don't have to be a great I'm a terrible meditator, but like, just try to just like literally have like a half a second where your brain didn't even think a thought, like if you can just do that. Like you close your eyes and just like focus on your breathing and just sort of just clear it out for just like literally half a second. If you could do that, then it makes it easier to get into the story. And then, like I said in the article too, like, yeah, what you can do is then say you're reading whatever like jurassic park.
Speaker 2:I think it's the example I use in the article. Like you know, just imagine like all right, I'm on the like jurassic park. I think it's the example I use in the article. Like you know, just imagine, like all right, I'm on the like jurassic park island, like start visualizing the textures, like the like the jungle and dinosaurs, and before you even start reading, yeah, yeah, before you start reading.
Speaker 2:And then, because you know, when you start reading a book, just like you're like even if you're like midway through it or whatever and just pick up the page and you're staring at it and you're not like forming any visual images in your mind and you're like reading the same passage over and over again. So, if you can like get that image already in your mind and you know where you are, because as soon as you grasp onto, like what's going on in the story and you like have a kind of sense of the narrative, like you immediately go, oh shit, and like you just start like flowing through it quicker. There's. It just always takes a bit, like if you to re-immerse yourself, like especially if you maybe you put the book down for a week or so and you haven't, you know, you've sort of like forgotten a bit what's going on.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, read the previous page, like from your last session, like reread it just to get a book, because it'll be easier to reread once you've read it once you know or or don't like you, because so I find like if you come back to a book and just like, just bore in, just go into it and you'll, you'll pick up what like where you left off eventually, like I, there's different ways of doing that. Definitely, um, well, I really like that idea of like. I've never thought of that, of that, but um, maybe I kind of automatically do that, I don't know, but like that is a really good tip just to sort of, you know, visualize um the world of the book, I guess, even if it's like a more um contemporary book or whatever, like if you're reading sally rooney, visualize yourself in like dublin and you know it being wet and cold and you know, just like, go over the characters in your head quickly, you know like just think like what?
Speaker 2:because you'll always have kind of a little mental image of what you think that character might look like or something. And yeah, you just sort of think about that, just something. To just sort of stop thinking about like I've got to respond to that guy, that fucking, you know, call me whatever on twitter.
Speaker 2:Like don't get into twitter arguments because you'll just be too, obsessed with that, like you know, and like, yeah, I have these problems.
Speaker 2:I'm like the least online guy probably in the scene, just about. Like I still have a twitter and all that, but I like barely ever post and I don't get caught up and I I'm always like five days behind on all the current things or whatever. Um. So, and even I have that where I'll be reading, and then I just like instinctually reach for my phone, like so keep it, whereas you have to like get up and walk a step to get to your phone. You don't have to have it in. Like you can keep it on if you're waiting for a call or something like that, but like just just try to keep it. So like you don't, you can like absentmindedly grab at it and if you need to just get it out of your system quickly, like just quickly check your notifications or something, and then try not to get like it's dangerous because it's even I do it. Like I'll go to check my bank balance and then I'm like scrolling through Instagram, looking at skate videos and stuff.
Speaker 1:And I'm like how the fuck did I end up here? Just because I saw the little badge icon had a two on it or something. Yeah, putting that, like, like jack says putting it in the other room is very necessary. Um, the other thing with that that, um, that is a really good tip for if you're finding it hard to get up in the morning as well, like you set your alarm on your phone but you put the phone in another room because it wakes you up and then you've like you can't just hit snooze because it's on your bedside table.
Speaker 1:You've got to get up and like, and once you're up, you're up. So like very rarely will you like flop back into bed, like because it's in. It's like oh well, I'm up, I better have a shower and get ready, sort of thing. So yeah, that's a good tip for not necessarily reading, but like getting your ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2:Isn't there like an app where, like the alarm will make you like solve a puzzle before it'll like turn off oh?
Speaker 2:really yeah, so I think it's like to hack, but I think your idea is simpler and you know whatever. Because you, you know whatever? Um, because you could get good at the puzzles to the point where you could just quickly solve it and then like just snooze, yeah, yeah, um. So it sucks now because it's like still dark at like five and six in the morning, so like the alarm will go off and it's just like, uh, I'm just gonna keep snoozing until like the sun, actually, because I'll keep my curtains open so that the sunlight will wake me up.
Speaker 1:But that's very soul, bra coded yeah, yeah, yeah, our compatriot soul bra, yeah again I barely know who that is.
Speaker 2:I did. I missed all the controversy with that guy just like all of a sudden, everyone's like talking about this guy. They hate who's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean he's, he's. He's really like you know about the sun, natural sun. He's one of those butthole sunners like he loves that shit, or is it? Is it the butthole or sunning your balls? I can't remember which one, it is probably both. But yeah, um, and you know, I don't doubt that that's a good, that's a good thing for you to do, um, but he's also a raw meat guy, which I'm less a fan of. Um. I do want to get his gym shorts, though, because they look really good.
Speaker 2:So, um, are they like all natural fibers? I think so. Yeah, yeah, I've been doing that updating my wardrobe to like nothing polyester, like all, like cotton and linen and wool, if I can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's good linen is so annoying to deal with, though, because it get creases so easily, and, oh yeah, if you're one of those fastidious people that needs, like it all, to be ironed like, it gets crinkled really fast I mainly go cotton, to be honest, but like you know, the cotton linen blend in like shorts or something like that can be nice, so they breathe a bit better yeah, um, and I'll just like even hunt op shops and stuff like this jumper is like a rod and gun hoodie all cotton, like it's hard to find.
Speaker 2:Like this gun hoodie all cotton. Like it's hard to find. Like this is where an off topic it was hard to find like tracksuits and stuff that are 100 cotton, like, yeah, found. Like the as store has good stuff and they always have sales and then you know some you'll go to like country road and they'll have 120 pair of tracksuit pants but they will be 100 cotton. But even like 100 pants, like will be just like 95 polyester, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I found, I found um that yeah, like you said, rod and guns good for that, and so is academy brand, if you've come across those. They have a lot of good natural blends. They have synthetics as well, but a lot of um anyway.
Speaker 2:Top another tip yeah for the listeners that's for that op shop episode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well, oh well. That's that can be a live one. When next time? Yeah, melbourne, because there's so many great um thrift stores here.
Speaker 2:So well, yeah, I was thinking too if, when you're in brisbane, we should go to that mount cravat bookstore because, like I always like have to just leave books like they had. I spent a hundred dollars there in the last week and I still like left like 12 michael walkoff books on the shelf, kind of thing, amazing. And then I like look at what I bought and I realized like I had I bought double ups. Like I bought like um, some book and it was already in like the collection of the, like that steampunk one, and so I was like a fucking idiot put the wrong ones, yeah, but I got. I got all the gene wolf, uh, book of the long sun, now a book of the new sun, I mean. So, yeah, a couple others, but anyway, back to our actual topic yeah, um so.
Speaker 1:So attention is a big thing, and you also talked about choice, which we've already kind of covered a little bit, but, um, yeah, I, I like the idea of just choosing something that interests you if you want to get back into reading, just something that's going to make you turn those pages. Basically is what you want to choose.
Speaker 2:Do you have any like suggestions of books? You're if you were to just give someone like you don't know anything about them. Just here's like five books that would just be easy to read.
Speaker 1:Books to start with uh, books, um yeah, I'd probably say it depends on the genre you're into too. So, um, I would probably say for, I don't know, for horror stuff I would just say stephen king, um, stephen king's you can't go wrong with if you're you're into that sort of stuff. But for the fantasy genres, like the ones we've already mentioned, like the belgaria, it's really easy to read um, so trouble with that, as though then you're committing to like five books.
Speaker 2:That's true, that's the trouble it's. But once you get into it, like, if you don't like the first book, just do not watch the whole series.
Speaker 1:Exactly With science fiction. I would probably stick with the classics, because science fiction these days like is pretty crap, like it's really poorly written. I would, yeah, go with the classics, the new wave, like people that we've covered on here before. Um, not necessarily I wouldn't go straight into philip k dick because, um, it's a bit metaphysical, it's a bit like I would do, like someone like heinlein or harlan ellison or someone like that.
Speaker 2:um, and or if you really want to get really spurgy, go with like asimov or some people like that some philip k dicks, depending on the person, like I think they could do ubic or the three stigmata definitely don't go valis or the man in the high castle, just because I think that one sucks. But um, yeah, um, you know, depending on like what if you're wanting to, because you know I think these people too like they're like, yeah, I could just read some trash, but I actually want to have read something that's considered like good, you know, um, so it's a bit yeah but the front.
Speaker 1:The thing is that, like sometimes trash is good I think, yeah the same, yeah like um well, actually most times trash is good, like all of those people I've mentioned, like step Stephen King is kind of trash, but like he's still like an amazing, amazing storyteller. And yeah, and same with all those other people that I've mentioned, like kind of phantasmagorical, interesting, uh complex shit in a genre stuff than you will in most, most modern literary stuff.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, and I that's another thing that I wanted to talk about too where you got the person who's like, oh, I've got, I feel like I need to be reading this, for, like, um, it's a weird prestige status thing and I'm like, rid yourself of that as well. Like just don't even, don't even think about that. Like why, like no one cares what you're reading. Like I mean, I do like, whenever I see someone reading a book, I'm always like rubbernecking to see what it is.
Speaker 2:It's so hard, yeah, it's so hard, to actually see what the cover is. They're always like hiding it almost.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So but like generally, like no one's going to be like, say, if you're reading Stephen King versus I don't know, thomas Pynchon, like I'm going to say like 60% of people probably don't know like what those names are, right, Maybe Stephen King more than.
Speaker 1:Thomas Pynchon, but even Stephen King, like they probably heard the name but don't know what that actually signifies, what kinds of stories that signifies. And so then it's just like so they're not going to judge you based on what you're reading, so I just you just need to read what you like, and that's that. Like I'm not going full like poptimism here, but like I'm just saying that like there is value in reading itself and you don't need to be like oh, I've read this, I've read that. That is like shit. That annoys me so much on social media where people like oh, I've read the latest. It was like that fucking, um, that brodenism piece, like whatever that russian guy's name was, that he was talking about. I'm like uh, this is like a really niche, uh kind of surreal, like book in polish translation or whatever it is, and I'm like imagine hearing yourself say that yeah, and what are you reading?
Speaker 1:oh well, actually it's this polish thing, it's one but like fine, if that's what you like, but also, who cares? Like no one cares in terms of prestige, like whether you're reading that or clive barker, like to, it's not. It's not a status signal. So it's like you're just reading, which reading in itself might be a status signal. Like people might be like oh, this person has enough of an attention span to read, so they are like but I don't think it's a status thing. It's probably just like oh, they're a bit weird because they can read. I don't know.
Speaker 2:And it's just like, if you read enough, you'll get to the point where, like, you've read so much trash that you kind of actually want to read Dostoevsky or like the Polish Brodnism thing, like, and you actually will enjoy it. But if you just jump straight into it, you're going to find it a lot of work. So, just yeah, rid yourself of this notion that you have to be like, accept its work, it is, reading is work, it's boring, a lot of the time, but it's rewarding. And if you figure it out you you're just gonna have to spend a bit of time like um, you know, wading through the muck, but hopefully our tips can help you like get there a bit quicker. Just yeah, a lot of everyone makes the mistake of just going straight to reading the like 1200 page like dostoevsky book or something and like, and then they do the thing where they read two chapters and they put it down and then they don't allow themselves to read anything else because they haven't finished that book. So just yeah, like I would say, like you know, if you want to be all time lining about it and stuff, read Platform by Welbeck. It's fun, it's easy to read and you'll get to post it on Instagram and be like look at me, I'm reading a cool book.
Speaker 2:But yeah, read Conan the Barbarian. They're fucking fun stories. Again, it depends if you want to actually say I finished a whole book. Conan's all broken down into like 20 page stories and like that can get a bit boring reading them. I read one once in a while, but I don't really ever read two in a row kind of thing. You read like the elric books by michael moorcock. They're pretty zippy and easy to punch through. Like they're only like 190 pages or something like um what else do I have written down here?
Speaker 2:oh the yeah, the island of dr moreau.
Speaker 1:That's a banger, it's not that long, yeah it's so good you'll.
Speaker 2:You'll think you know the story because there's movies and simpsons episodes based on. You don't probably even know the real story and how good it is. Um fight club. That's easy to read, like you've probably seen the movie so you can like also just read it easier because you sort of know what's going on. Yeah, any Michael Crichton book is probably going to be a good choice and you notice yeah, sorry, keep going.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I'm done you notice that all these recommendations are books that would never be assigned in school, and so this is the other thing that you have to do, like I was saying before, is that you have to reorient your relationship to reading away from school, because usually for most people, people that's when they read like start reading books right and they're assigned these books like you might there's a few bangers that you get in school like well, I did anyway, like the outsiders. The outsiders I got, uh, brave new world in my later years, which was like really mind-blowing at the time.
Speaker 2:um, I got 1984 in high school and I thought it was the boringest thing in the whole world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then I read it again in my like 30, when I was 30 and I was like this book rules, like yeah, but brave new world, I think, is better, because I think it's like that's the actual dystopia that that we live in, but but what's closer to that anyway? But so the so, but, other than that, you do get assigned things that are not assigned because they're pleasurable to read. They're assigned because they're quote unquote important. There are things that you can kind of draw out of them for criteria in school. Like you know, 1984 is a good example Like, write an essay on authoritarianism or whatever, or free speech, or whereas um, those books, uh are readily, uh, applicable to learning, whereas these other books are more applicable to you having a good time, and that's the.
Speaker 1:That's the reorientation that I kind of want people to understand that like, it's not about um, just stop thinking, it's about learning, and that you're doing something to kind of um, educate yourself. You know, like, and I think that's a. That's something that a lot of people who read like lean into as well. Like, if you're a kind of, they'd be like I'm very sophisticated because I've read all these books. It's like no, I want people to understand that, for the most part, reading books is fun and like it's a good time. Like it's not about, like, you signaling that you're this, um, you know, intellectual or whatever.
Speaker 2:I really, I really hate that attitude and if and if reading books made you smart, like then all those fucking like libtard journalists, people who read like a hundred books against trump every year, would be geniuses yeah clearly like they could just keep reading books over and over again.
Speaker 1:It doesn't move the needle to be fair, I don't think they actually read that many books, but yeah, maybe not well, they post the.
Speaker 2:I remember there was a bit like after trump was like lost the second election or whatever, and they're like all right, I'm getting rid of all the books I read over the last.
Speaker 2:And then someone just had a pile of just like all of those like why Trump's fascist, fascist and Mary Trump's book and and I remember seeing them all in thrift shops like I was nearly tempted to start buying them up but I was like what am I gonna do with these? I'm not fucking reading them, like, like I don't. My missus will get mad that I'm already like wasting enough space in the house with books I'm not reading.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I can see some yeah, oh, no those are dvds, dvds you're turning into a hoarder. Um, yeah, the other one that that, um, I liked that you talked about, was being comfortable when you, when you're in your little reading nook. Um, that's always important, I think.
Speaker 2:Um yeah, these are the devices he's wearing these glasses.
Speaker 1:That, uh, what do they do? They allow you to like lean back and read it, so I can see you now, yeah, like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're like got little mirrors in them. They're called lazy readers. You can get them on like ebay or amazon or some shit, and so because I was finding just getting like a crooked neck, like you do look insane when you wear that.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, of course.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you look like a cyberpunk character yeah, you look like you're in the like um, fucking, what's this? What's the schwarzenegger movie based on the philip k dick the I can't believe a?
Speaker 1:total recall.
Speaker 2:You look like you're in like the totalall pod or whatever.
Speaker 1:Minority Report pod. Get your ass to Mars. Get your ass to Mars.
Speaker 2:Like the lawnmower man or something. But yeah, so they're just like you can lay, because, yeah, you get a sore neck reading and the more your neck or back is hurting, the more you're just going to think about that and the more laborious reading becomes. Becomes so like, yeah, I, I don't always use these, but like, if I'm I'll just lay flat on my bed. I put the lazy readers on and then I got this pillow pad here, which they might have different names, but you can get them in like post offices and online kmart. Like they're just like a triangular prism foam thing and they got like a little ledge, like that one's kind of shaped like the neo-nazi sign, but um a little bit um, um, but not exactly you can probably get a swastika shaped one if you really want to be esoteric about it.
Speaker 2:Um uh. But yeah, you're just reading mine conf, like yeah, don't read that book as your first book to start but I've never read it, but it looks boring, um, but yeah, so it's just like a little thing that you can like put the book on like a little ledge, and especially if you've got a kindle, because then you can go let go of it. If you've got a book that you've got a hole open, you know whatever, that just still makes it easier because it takes the weight off you, off your shoulders, and that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so I'll just lay on my back, I'll put the kindle, like on that little pillow pad, and I'll just like sit back so I can keep my neck straight and like, and then I'll read seven pages and fall asleep. Um, with the glasses yeah, no no, um, like yeah.
Speaker 2:So I don't always do it because, like when I'm just too relaxed, especially if it's like later at night, I'll fall asleep, but if it's in the middle of the day or something, but whatever, this might not work for you. Don Don't be like all right, I can't read, start the book until I've got the pillow pad. And lazy readers Like you just got to, like you know, it might be better just to sit at a table and like sit in a chair and then you put the book on the table or, you know, prop it up on some cushions. Just get yourself comfortable in some way. Get on a beanbag, like figure out what's gonna cause you the least like discomfort. And yeah, like I say, do some, just do some stretches, do like just youtube, like basic 10 minute yoga or something, just to like sort of get rid of any. You'll be any.
Speaker 2:That was hard L, not hard R, yeah. So just find some way that you're going to be like not too uncomfortable and you know, every so often maybe just get up, walk around, sort of stretch your neck out a bit, do it, you know, whatever, just yeah, because I think I feel like no one ever talks about this. But reading can become physically painful, like where I don't know. Do you get that much like the old man back and stuff?
Speaker 1:not really. I'm pretty spry for my age actually, but like, um, I don't know why, maybe it's just good genetics or something, but like, but usually I'm in bed and I'm like propped up on a pillow when I read, so or I'm in um on the couch or something like that, and usually I'll move around. But, uh, you know if I need to change positions, but I'm sure it'll become a thing as I get older, um, but yeah, so it is important to be comfortable. Uh, I like, um, I do like the idea of you know how people sometimes who work at an office have, like the standing desk, the adjustable kind of thing. I do like the idea of being someone you know. Well, I would love to have a room that it's my library and I'd love to have a lectern like that you could just read it on, um, so you could stand up and read. That'd be fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you're like cause. That's the thing too. Like cause I'm driving all day, so I'm sitting and I've got my so that's kind of why, like, I got to stretch so much.
Speaker 2:It depends on what your job is. If you're stretching your muscles out, working or something, and then like to sit down is kind of like relaxing. So yeah, like you know, when I'm at work I'll be in the van, I'll take my lunch break and the kindle's great because I can just sit it on the steering wheel and then I can just eat my sandwich or whatever and just sit there, um, and just you know read and stuff. But um, you know, just sitting for long periods of time or whatever, just so it's bad for your muscles. So you just got to get up and sort of. But again the point is like, don't have to do what I'm doing exactly or whatever, just so it's bad for your muscles. So you just got to get up and sort of. But again the point is like don't have to do what I'm doing exactly or whatever, just figure out what works. And I guess that's the point I wanted to elaborate on.
Speaker 2:My article is like I was trying to like demonstrate without saying it explicitly, like just play around until you find your own system. Just don't get too fixated on the systematic thing of it, like, yeah, it's, sometimes it's, except it's going to sometimes kind of hurt your neck a little bit. Don't sit there and just like I I still do this like my neck will be hurting and I'll just I'll go to the end of the chapter before I get up, and then the chapter happens to be 65 pages long or something, and then I'm like fully like kinked in my neck and then by the end of it I'm not not absorbing the story. Just got to like, yeah, pay attention to your body and listen to the signals it's telling you. And you know, change things around, move to the couch, move to the bedroom, stand up, get the lazy readers if you think that'll help you out. Just something you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, yeah, that's something that, yeah, make sure that you're comfortable, because it is again, it's a fun thing. And that point that you raise about, like you know, don't try to have everything aligned, I have to do this or that. Like, do what works for you. Like I feel like a lot of this stuff where people are like I need to do this, I need to do that, before I can even start reading, it's just like you're just looking for excuses not to read Exactly. Yeah, like, do you want to do it or do you not want to do it? If you want to do it, do it. You know it's that sort of thing. It's the same with the Jack's thing about the transloom fees.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, same with the um, what the jack's thing about the translumphe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, wasn't that your coinage, actually, I believe I coined it, yeah, but like I was like derivative coinage from his already yeah yeah yeah, the trans lumphe, the person who, like, must have the correct translation of the translated book before they can even like, you know, um, even even begin. You know, it's just like. No, just get the book and read it. Yeah, um, the other thing that, the other point that um you made, which I think this last one was the point about time, and like I really think you could have been meaner in this section because, like, people are so stupid about this where they're like I don't have any time to read and it's like bullshit.
Speaker 1:You just wasted your timeline yeah, you just wasted, yeah, a hundred tweets per day. I'm like, oh, I have no time to read. You know? Um, yeah, like you've been on social media for most of the day, including your work day, and but you don't have time to read.
Speaker 2:That is a crock of shit it's like when someone's like you know, like they're like I haven't seen you in a while, like I've just been so busy, it's always bullshit. It's just like I didn't want to hang out with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't I didn't um make the time to hang out with you.
Speaker 2:Definitely, yeah, yeah and yeah, if, like kelby and dav, david can like have children, have a podcast, write books, play video games.
Speaker 1:And have full-time jobs.
Speaker 2:Have full-time jobs, shoot guns, whatever else is they do, and still probably read more books than I do. Like anyone can make time, you know.
Speaker 2:Like it's just nonsense. It's just you've got to like carve out that space. You yeah, you're not going to be like able to like craft these banger tweets and punch them out all the time, like you. Just at some point, you just have to make the decision like what do I want to do more? Do I want to read or do I want to try to become like a notorious twitter account?
Speaker 1:yeah, exactly oh and speaking of twitter as well, I remember there was a guy a few months back I think it might have been last year actually who was like saying it was relating it to like college and stuff that you know it used to be that we would expect students to be able to read 100 pages a day and that was just normal, right, but now it's like expecting to read 100 pages a semester is like too much. You know, um, and all of these people were like criticizing this guy who, like I forget his name, but he's a pretty like. He works in a university, he's pretty, um, you know, he's pretty kind of like, as you would expect, professorial, whatever. So he wasn't necessarily doing a right wing kind of engagement farm thing. He was just stating a fact and he was saying that, but then he was getting quote, tweeted by all these people saying it was ableist, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's the people saying like, oh, you know, I work, most students work, have to work-time or like part-time actually, because they're students, um, and they've got other commitments and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, come on as if, as if those people with their other commitments are constantly online scrolling tiktok, looking at twitter or instagram or whatever the hell they're doing. Um, it's just such bullshit. And then I got um, yeah, in response, I think I quote, tweeted that as well. And in response to that, I think um friend of the pod, patrick um, who's a listener, uh reached out to me and said he was like um, he works 50 hours a week, he has toddlers and he definitely reads over 100 pages a day. So, like, if people like that can do it, like you can do it too with your um, you know um single life scrolling, doom scrolling all day, sort of thing. Like you can definitely find the time and it is ableist to a degree, but I'm like to that.
Speaker 2:I just say like well, are you fucking retarded? Like unless, unless you are, like, then what's so? What? Just do it. Like you have the ability, like yeah, every to do anything. There's going to be an argument that is ableist because some people aren't able to do it. It's like, okay, we'll, we'll excuse those guys, you know, from the like expectation to read, you know, like not even 100 pages a day, like 10 pages a day or something like they can be excused, but if you're not like, then ah, yes, your excuse, yes, fresca, but like their excuse now is that everyone has adhd and therefore they are disabled.
Speaker 1:Uh, so that's why that's, that's that's probably what they're getting at.
Speaker 2:I have I when I was in school, the doctors tried, or the teachers tried, to pressure my parents to put me onto like adhd medicine. I fought through that shit. Like I have trouble with the like attention thing. I'm trying to read and I talk to people all the time who just like, use that as an excuse and and like and they're just like, yeah, but I like I have adhd. It's like I just one guy at work always uses the term neurodivergent and stuff like that and but then they're, they're on social media, like absorbing all the bullshit. Like it's like you're just making you just I try I always be blunt with them. Like you're just throwing an excuse in the way. Like just, I'm just like I have those issues where I have trouble with the tension span and stuff like that. I just fought through it and eventually get to the other side. Stop putting the excuse in the way yeah and ADD is not real.
Speaker 1:So also there's that. Yeah, yeah, cosign that. Yeah, it's literally just phones.
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 1:ADHD is literally just phones. Stop saying you've got ADHD. Stop saying stop fucking shopping around for a diagnosis so you can say that you're disabled, pay a lot of money for those diagnoses too and get on the NDIS in fucking Australia, which is like such a fraud, where people like take money from the government and like pay people to take them out somewhere because they have ADHD and like quote unquote social anxiety or whatever. You don't have these things, you have phone. That's what you have. That is your affliction, what we've been saying. If you want to get into reading and you're quote unquote adhd, you need to deal with the phone and you need to do the things that we're talking about in this episode.
Speaker 2:You have phone, not adhd totally yeah, as people in my work where they're like, they're like, take it seriously, they'll be like 50 years old and they're like. You know, I always had trouble with this and then the doctor, I got diagnosed with adhd and like now, like you know, like I take the speed tablets and I like, and I'm just like bro, you just like taking speed like stop, stop acting like you're like and it does make you more efficient, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it's really good. I remember, um, when I was in the US, because you know they just hand Adderall out like candy over there. Like it's really amazing actually you know how hard it is to get Like it's not hard, but it is you know You've got to pay a lot here.
Speaker 2:You've just got to pay $1,000 to doctors and now a friend of josie's like got paid paid to get a diagnosis.
Speaker 1:She got diagnosed as like dyslexic at like 30 something.
Speaker 2:It's like so what is it gonna even do?
Speaker 1:didn't actually like yeah, clearly you survived, clearly you've survived for this long, like, why did you need? And, yeah, when you've got like people in their 40s and 50s saying, oh, I'm adhd, it's just like. No, those people are the most addled by their phones. Like, have you ever seen like? And people older too, like my parents, who were boomers they're always on their phones or on the internet or whatever, getting addled by social media and like they're. And then this but they don't have at least they don't claim to have adhd.
Speaker 2:You know, um, most boomers don't, I don't think, but um, they remember when boomers, when phones were kind of new, and they're always like you're out to dinner somewhere and you look at your phone like, get off your phone. Oh, blah, blah, blah. Oh, that waitress has tattoos that sucks. And then you're like, oh, come on. And now I'm like, no, you're right, waitress has tattoos that sucks, and get off your phone. Stop fucking showing me how your apple watch works.
Speaker 2:I don't care, yeah and then they're like, yeah, my dad will just be like mid-sentence, just like, oh, the fucking thing, and like getting like mad about it. They're like there's so much more into the technology, like, but they still will like, oh, you're young, you know how to use this. How do I set this up? Like no, you, you use it more than I do. You should know by now.
Speaker 1:You made your bed. Line it, line it, yeah. So yeah, a lot of insights here for people who want to read, including people who think they have ADHD, but they don't. No, did you have anything more to add to this that you didn't get?
Speaker 2:into the original article. Let me have a look at the notes I made. I think we covered it all pretty much. There's always more and more little kind of tips, but yeah, I think the main points are like yeah, your phone is going to be a hindrance, pick something that's going to be easy to read and you will have a good time. You know, get comfortable.
Speaker 1:Get a Kindle, um, yeah, something like that. Yeah, I agree. And also, just don't don't view it like you know you don't go into movies or you don't go into like, um, uh, go to watch a football game or something like that, with the idea that you're going to learn something. Right, you're going, you're going to have a good time, you're going to be excited, you're going to be enthralled, you're going to be compelled like so it's like view the same way you view those things, view reading, because I think you've been trained to view reading as this like scholastic thing that you have to do in school. So you, we have to like break that, that, that um idea of reading too. Yeah, just have fun because it is fun yeah, it is fun.
Speaker 2:It's boring sometimes, but like, push through that. Like movies are boring sometimes, especially nowadays, they all seem to be really fucking boring, um. So, yeah, just accept you're gonna have some boredom, but just keep going and you'll have a lot of fun. And yeah, if you, if you make the right pick with a book, it will flow easily. And yeah, definitely stop making excuses stop it?
Speaker 1:yeah, uh, all right, I will. I'll share this in the show notes your articles so hopefully you get a few more readers there if you want to find out more. And yeah, we'll be back again soon. I'm not quite sure what the next episode will be, but yeah, thanks for joining us today. I'll see you later. No-transcript.